SPOILER ALERT: This piece contains spoilers for Shrinking Season 2 Episode 7.
Shrinking music supervisors Christa Miller and Tony Von Pervieux approach song selection for the Apple TV+ comedy series by isolating specific songs for certain scenes in the show. While they bank as many songs as possible in a shared playlist, they also come into every season having a few names in mind who they want to fit into the half-hour episodes, especially new artists.
Miller, who also stars as Liz in the series that follows Jimmy Laird (Jason Segel) as he treats his therapy clients in unorthodox methods that have surprisingly good results, revealed that some placements get “stolen” or moved up based on how good a song is, which happened with both needle drops in Season 2 Episode 2 — “Never Been Better” by Ben Abraham and “cope” by AKA lisa.
In the below interview, Miller and Von Pervieux discuss the two songs they used in Shrinking Season 2 Episode 7, the latest installment of Shrinking now streaming, some specific sonic contributions from writer Bill Posley and Tom Howe and what viewers can look forward to in the second half of Season 2.
DEADLINE: With forgiveness being a general theme for Season 2, did that factor into the music selection at all?
CHRISTA MILLER: We bank a lot of music more on if it’s a standalone song that we both love, that we think is going to be great, and how can we promote new artists and have them be out there. We both try to really use new artists. Also it’s fun to not have such heavy songs sometimes when it’s a sad moment.
TONY VON PERVIEUX: We go through a lot of the music that we love first foremost, and then, the music that we know that could resonate within the show and with people. And honestly, when we’re going through, for specific scenes, the messaging, then that’s when we start pulling from the list and figuring out and narrowing it down which ones work best, as far as like tone, and then, obviously, messaging. And then, of course, when we’re having the music editor cut in, that’s when we really get to see which one stands out in the moment.
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MILLER: We’ll say, “All right, we’ve narrowed down to four different songs, and they could be totally different tempo. And then when they’re all cut in, even one that might be your favorite — and there’s some songs that, like, both of us were like, I want this. This song has to be added — except for a couple songs, I think we got everything in. But I feel you get goosebumps when the right song no matter what the tempo. You’re like, “Oh,” it makes your whole day.”
VON PERVIEUX: We’ve been through it where we’ve had several songs that we thought might work, and then we put it to picture, and it kind of works, but it’s not quite there yet. Then we go back to the drawing board, find a few other songs that we’ve banked and then go back in and put it in, and then realize, “Okay.” Once you see it to picture and, get the emotion behind the great acting, it literally, then just speaks for itself. We typically know pretty quick whether or not the song is gonna work after we look at it, and it’s pretty magical.
MILLER: It’s magical, but sometimes, what they’ll do is, we’ll find a magical moment and it’s really hard work. As much as you bank, like right now we’re both banking music for Season 3, you know, we had a lot of time because of the writers’ strike to bank music for Season 2. it becomes an unmanageable list. You get it to favorites, we really want to love these songs. And you’ll get one of those songs in, and it works. You get goosebumps. And then Bill will say, “Oh, that song is so good there. I’m stealing it for this episode.” Because I don’t get the episodes early. I get them like everybody else. Then you have to start from scratch. “Oh, drop everything you’re doing, because we’re locking the show tomorrow,” because I’m pulling that song.
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I’m not kidding, Dessi, you’re like, “Oh my god, the episode’s done.” It’s goosebumps. It’s all bill signed off. It’s all great. And then I get this call Tony, and I will get a call from Bill, and you’re like, Oh no, because wherever I am, I gotta go home. I’ve got to get on my I’ve got to, like, figure it, because it’s going to be asked to be locked by today.
DEADLINE: In Episode Seven, you have “Somebody Else” by The 1975 song, and you used “Me” in Season 1. How did that moment slot into place?
VON PERVIEUX: We are not shy to use the same band twice. We’ve done it actually a couple times this season with Angie McMahon, right?
MILLER: Arcade Fire.
VON PERVIEUX: We’re not scared to use the same band twice. Obviously not the same song. But yeah, The 1975’s “Somebody Else” that was, especially, well you take this away because this is your moment, Christa.
MILLER: Sometimes, songs are a per perfect fit. Tony and I really try to use new music and new artists and help people get their music out there. We’re not shy about if we love a band, and if we love a band, we’ll have them in it. That song just happened to work so perfectly. I play Bill a lot of music, and there’s always music in the house, and I play my master list that Tony and I have. Bill was bringing it up too so it’s like a workshop. And what I love is that the song at the end, which I love, “Into the Ether, by Leif Vollebekk. I’m seeing him tonight (Monday night) at The Troubadour, and we’re going to meet each other. We’ve been texting, so it’s really such a nice community and such a nice way to get to know these artists. I love both songs in Episode 7.
DEADLINE: Did you have any input in the Tik Tok song at the beginning of Episode Seven?
VON PERVIEUX: You’re talking about “Cheater Bitch”?
DEADLINE: Yes. [Laughs]
VON PERVIEUX: That is legendary by Bill Posley, who’s one of the writers. Of course, Tom Howe did the instrumental piece to it. So that’s a little original song. It’s pretty funny, because obviously, in that moment, in 207, and then it gets, you know, re-sung, several times, and then there’s another recurring moment in a future episode. Just a little moment, but it’s fun. That one is something that the writers dreamt up and wrote, and we played with it with Tom Howe on the music end and made its little thing.
DEADLINE: Leif’s song at the end of Episode 7 is such a big moment when Jimmy sees that these three people are meeting up behind his back. Did you feel pressure to hit that one? How did that song come up for you both?
MILLER: Tony and I both knew Angie McMahon and Leif and funny, Angie has two placements this season, but they were two artists that we both wanted to make sure were in the show. We were both pitching Leif, the editors knew, and he has many songs. I had a choice of four of his to put in. I was like, “Oh my God,” because sometimes, there’s going to be favorites from last season that might go in Season 3 because they didn’t fit and we wanted to use them. With Leif, it was perfect.
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VON PERVIEUX: It was one of those songs that stuck out for us, that we knew we wanted to use. We didn’t know exactly where yet. Going into that episode and spotting the episode, we find, because [it was] the same thing with The 1975, we had a couple other songs that we were trying out there, but nothing was really hitting with the tone, and the tone is very important because the seriousness of everything that’s going on, especially with Liz’s character. We tried out that song with the purpose of nailing the tone and the messaging that basically took us out into the end credits. So the Leif one stuck for us. It just felt natural.
DEADLINE: Christa, an acting question for you for the scene with Harrison Ford when Liz has her little therapy moment on the bench in Episode Seven. She also had a scene earlier in the season where she kind of sits down with Paul and Sean, but I wanted to ask how you went into playing that and when each character gets their maybe unofficial therapy through their friends and what’s so important about this moment for the season?
MILLER: I think Liz and Paul have such a funny relationship because they don’t really like each other, but then they kind of make each other laugh. They’re ambivalent about each other, but I think ultimately, begrudgingly, Liz realizes that he probably is the top person instead of going to Jason[‘s character Jimmy], she wouldn’t want to do that. She would know that she could have privacy and go to Paul, and I think there’s people, there’s friends or therapists, that you can go in your life and you have their trust, and you choose someone, if you imagine, if you had something serious, that there’s people that you would go to. No matter what she feels about him, she knows she can trust him. I haven’t been able, I haven’t had the chance to play that connection with Harrison like that. So it was it was challenging content, but a really inspiring day.
Brett Goldstein in ‘Shrinking’
Apple TV+
DEADLINE: I also wanted to ask about the song at the end of episode one, when Brett shows up in the office. Can you talk about how you landed on that song?
MILLER: That was a true group effort. That was Tony, Bill and me. We were pitching all sorts of things. And Bill goes, “There’s a song that you and Charlotte [Lawrence] and Tony used to play all the time that was going to be in Scrubs, and it couldn’t be in Scrubs.” And I was like, “Are you high? How would I never think of what the song is? It’s crazy.” And then I’m calling Charlotte, and Charlotte’s like, “Is it this?” I’m like, “You were five, so I don’t know what he’s talking about.” I thought Bill had lost his mind. My husband has like, almost a photographic memory, and I think the three of us might have all been on the phone. He goes, “It’s this, it’s the Fink song.” And then I have to step out of it, but then Tony had another brilliant idea that I can’t talk about and that that’s all I’m gonna say.
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VON PERVIEUX: We can hint on it. But the main thing is what Christa pointed to before, is the goosebump like when we watched it with, Fink “Looking Too Closely,” at the end of one, we just knew that tone, that vibe, that feel just was so, I mean, such a riveting scene.To be able to use that song there just felt right. But it took a little bit to get to get to that point or where, “Okay, that was, that was a song.” And finally, when we all saw it, we knew, but then, yeah, speaking on what Christa was mentioning, there was kind of like an “Aha!” moment when we were all spotting the session, because that song, it’s not old, but it’s older. And obviously, Christa and I, we want to try and find some of the newer gems, but because it works so well, serendipitous, happened where there’s a newer version of that song [that] landed in our emails, that it’s kind of like a different take on the song by the same artist. And we will be book ending that. We won’t tell you where. We won’t tell you when.
MILLER: That’s all Tony.
VON PERVIEUX: But as soon as I talked to Christa about it, she was like, “Yeah, that’s a great idea. Let’s let’s go there. Let’s do that.” And the thing is, we didn’t even really have the scene yet, because it was so early on. We’re still working on episode one. But we knew, the editors were asking for later episode song, and this was, this was the moment to go there. So it was cool because her finding this song, and then putting it up to picture after many attempts to find the right song, and then just book ending it with a newer version. Yhe vibes for each scene, you’ll see the difference when you watch.
MILLER: There’s been a lot of moments this year. I feel like, I must say, I feel like Tony and I were talking about it earlier, but the whole show feels magical. It feels like everyone’s trying to be a part of the team and help. Our editors are incredible and help when I have, like, “Can you put five songs to picture?” They have great taste too, and sometimes put in our music in different spots than we would have thought it, and I’m like, “Oh, that works well there.” And then Bill’s like, “Oh, we’re putting it there. It’s stolen.” That’s why I say stolen. But Fink was one of those moments, like with Andrew McMahon, that we were like, “Oh my god, this is going to be great,” and then Bill and the writers and Neil Goldman, they were able to write for the Fink song specific episode it comes up in. The first episode is always a little difficult because [we have] so much music, Tony, I promise we’ll make, let’s, we’ve got to have it make a smaller playlist this year, because it makes the first episode, even though we’ve done, I mean it’s your second season, you’re still kind of trying, you have so many choices, too many choices.
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VON PERVIEUX: It’s definitely a process, especially with the first one. The initial pilot episode, just figuring out tone and the music for it, and then it’s coming in for Season 2. We kind of know the type of music we love to use, but it’s still a process of figuring out, how do we tell the story with the music in this first episode, to make it as good as possible. It’s always a process, but it’s a fun process on this show, everyone’s such a team player, and everyone’s so cool. And obviously the writing, the acting and everything is amazing. So our job is to make the music enhance all of it.
DEADLINE: I have to ask about The Lord of the Rings trap song.
VON PERVIEUX: That’s another Bill Posely special. [Laughs] He’s really had his stamp on this season support with the crazy, funny songs. He essentially, I guess, had this or kind of cowrote this with his Dos Padres team as kind of like a joke or whatever. And I think Kip or Bill or somebody was like, we want to use this for a little bit somewhere, and then they found the spot for it.
DEADLINE: Christa, how does the moment with “Somebody Else,” present one of the bigger obstacles that she’s had and how it sets up for the rest of the show?
MILLER: I know when I read it I was like, “Ohhhhh, that’s a lot.” I think in life, people make mistakes. People do stupid, impulsive things. People get to certain points of their life and feel trapped and, make bad choices. I also would like to say, I don’t write the show. I have no input in the storyline. And this year’s about forgiveness, and I think there’s always gray area in things, and I think that was a big mistake, and I think, though, we’ll see what happens. It was a shocker for me to read as well. I mean, I knew I knew about it before I read the script. But just when just actually reading it was like, you know, like, my heart. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah.
VON PERVIEUX: I was surprised watching it, but I don’t know. I just felt like it was a good test for you and your characters. It was a good test.
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MILLER: Listen, I hear things from friends that you just go, “You did what? What’d you do?” It actually makes me like my friends more. It makes me laugh, like I just don’t have that with things, but think a lot of people, you know, it’s life, you know, you make mistakes.
DEADLINE: Is there anything in this final half of this season that you can tease? Are there any artists you really want to get for season three?
MILLER: Season 3, we’re just starting now, yeah, and I’m sure there’s going to be many artists. You know, we get our music from a lot of our different sources, we share a source of Charlotte Lawrence, who shows us music, and we get into artists that we love. So we’ll see, it’s kind of a unique process. And Tony and I just happen to really gel on our music tastes. So, we just get each other in that way. Thank God.
VON PEVIEUX: Episode 12, that’s got a lot of music in it. One of the heavier music episodes and it’s got a lot of different things. There’s something for everyone in that episode, but it also alludes to the thing I was we were talking about earlier. I think wrapping up this season, Christa and I, we did a great job finding some good gems and connecting the dots for these characters, for these scenes, a lot of them, which take you into the end credits too. So it kind of leaves you in that moment until the next episode. But for Season 3, I think we’re just gonna focus on continuing to find more great music and make more playlists. There’s obviously tons of new stuff coming out that’s really good, but there’s a lot of stuff that I’m sure, you know, we have tons of stuff that’s just like, kind of waiting to be used. We just got to find the right moment.
Ted McGinley and Christa Miller in ‘Shrinking’ Season 2
MILLER: In the end, there’s only 12 episodes, and it’s only half an hour, but I will say this, it’s like Neil Goldman, our other executive producer, and all the writers we love, all the writers. We had a a scene later on, this will be my tease, that in between takes, that a lot of us, not the whole cast, was in. Some of us were in and the writer of that episode, and then other writers were coming down because the set was at night and we were shooting, and you know which it was just a fun time. They were playing a particular song, and all the writers knew all the words, and they were blaring it in between scenes, and it was a lot. I was just laughing at these writers with this song. And so a scene came up, and I think it’s in 12. And I’m like, we gotta put this song in for the writers, and Bill’s and and Tony’s like “I love it.” And Bill goes, “I can’t make it work. How? There’s too much dialog. I can’t.” And we’re like, “You gotta make it work. You gotta do it for the writers, they’ll laugh so hard.” It’s also a great song, and Bill called me, and it was a Monday and he goes, “We tried. You better have backups.” And I’m like, “You better make it work.” Which I never do, and they made it work. You’ll know the song, and you will be happy they made it work.
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